Never Eaten an Apple, but I Could Eat a Peach for Hours | There is a Tide… | Star Trek: Discovery

After capturing the U.S.S. Discovery, Osyraa seeks a meeting with Admiral Vance while Burnham and the crew must overcome unimaginable odds as they attempt to regain command of their ship.

In this episode of the podcast, Wes and Clay discuss “There is a Tide…” and the incredibly frustrating storytelling of Star Trek: Discovery. Plus! The guys chat about hammering out a contract, Stamets forcing his familial self on Adira, and the technical details of The Burn.

The third season of the American television series Star Trek: Discovery follows the crew of the USS Discovery as they travel to the future, over 900 years after the events of the original Star Trek series. The season is being produced by CBS Television Studios in association with Secret Hideout and Roddenberry Entertainment, with Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise serving as showrunners.

Sonequa Martin-Green stars as Michael Burnham, along with the returning Doug Jones, Anthony Rapp, Mary Wiseman, and Wilson Cruz. They are joined by David Ajala and Rachael Ancheril. The season was ordered in February 2019, with Paradise promoted to co-showrunner alongside series co-creator Kurtzman. They ended the second season with the Discovery travelling to the future, beyond existing Star Trek continuity. This allowed them to explore a new time period for the franchise. Filming took place from July 2019 to February 2020, in Toronto, Canada, and on location in Iceland. Post-production took place remotely due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The 13-episode season premiered on the streaming service CBS All Access on October 15, 2020, to positive reviews. It is set to finish airing on January 7, 2021. A fourth season was officially announced in October 2020.


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  1. Happy New Year Wes and Clay I'm Sure the Discovery Season 3 Finale will be Better it looks Epic from the Trailer.

  2. is it just me or was anyone else getting a vibe that whoever the federation president is is going to be some kind of reveal? Is it robot Picard?

  3. The most important negotiation in centuries… and there’s just two people? And like an hour?

  4. Clay said that there is a more than zero chance that Saru will die. That's possible. If someone on the planet dies, it definitely won't be Culber or Adira. But I've had a strong feeling all season that Michael Burnham was going to die in the finale. I'm not really sure why. But this episode had a moment that makes sense when viewed through that prism.

    When Michael contacts her mother, she says, "The way things are going we may not see each other again, until another distant future. Maybe Dad will be there. I love you." The "distant future" she's referring to is obviously the afterlife since her Dad is dead. Perhaps this scene wasn't there to set up Gabrielle Burnham's return in the finale. Maybe it's there to close out that relationship because they're not going to be onscreen together again.

  5. Does anyone else remember how Michael travelled back in time to steal some people from WW3 and plant them on an alien world so they could have a base to go to in the future? Seems like the writers have forgotten or at least they don't want us to see it anytime soon.

  6. On the Adira point, I wonder if at one point the character was supposed to be a fair bit younger? Stamets's weird insistence that he is Adira's dad might have been more intuitive if Adira was about 13. As it is, they're supposed to be, what, about 17? And at that point it is so much more of a stretch that Adira is supposed to be on the market for a new father figure.

  7. A person being responsible for the Burn is a very Douglas Adams thing to do. "Everyone say hello to Tom. He's serving as our space anomaly this season."

  8. Discovery seems like one of the least plot-driven shows. In a plot-driven show, at least the plot would make sense. The characters might seem like robots and the emotions untethered from their situations, but the plot would make sense. But like Into Darkness, the plot doesn't really make sense. It's a collection of moments. A visually cool moment. A high emotion moment. There's enough plot to get to the next moment.

  9. Writing: 4.9 – Convoluted and contradictory, told but not shown. At this point I feel discussing what is going on is useless; the next week there'll be some plot-contrivance that will contradict what was already established, it happens over and over. And anyway, the writing in this show is clearly an afterthought and therefore deserves no consideration. Don't waste your time.

    Acting: 8.0 – The cast elevates this show. Every actor brings 100%, that's why I feel any interest in this show.

    Sound Design: 7.9 – Gorgeous. Well mixed. On a good sound system, this is feature-movie level work. Love it.

    Visual FX: 7.6 – Gorgeous lighting, colour schemes, moods, as per usual. Practical and CG effects are well-handled.

    Costumes: 8.0 – Wonderful work with creature/alien design. The show builds upon what came before in terms of authenticity and creativity. I love their work.

    Wes, you spoke about how the journey is important: I've been rewatching Star Trek Voyager to accompany The Delta Flyers podcast. More and more I feel that the journey is all that is important, all the rest falls away and you really connect with the characters and their arcs on Voyager. There is a lot of missing depth in Discovery.

    Take Discovery's Andorian character, Ryn; you're told about his tragic, tortured past, his attempt at starting a revolution, and witness his "redemption", but at his zenith, all you feel is "meh". That character should have been a recurring one, HIS PTSD could have been interesting for him to work out, versus the completely undercooked way Detmer's was handled.

    I take it that the writers don't know how to tell stories and I feel there is a lot of manoeuvring behind the scenes with a goal of reworking New Trek into something with broader appeal. Sometimes that works, other times it wrecks the story.

    I've been defending Discovery by saying they're evolving into their own thing and I expect that season 4 will finally have left the show in a place where its elements and goals are clear, but then, I've been holding out a lot of hope for so much during the past year, maybe I'm just deluded.

  10. The emotional hooks are hooking me more than the reviewers.
    I was prepared to believe that an immature person like Stamets would fall in love with his padawan.

  11. I stopped watching after season 1, but listening to this podcast it sounds like they didnt change a thing about STD. the show still suffer from centric plots and has no signs of the chain of command and protocols .

  12. I can't suspend disbelief and believe Osyraa could inspire fear & become the leader of the Emerald Chain … She's too nice, polite and talks too much …

    Star trek Discovery needs to work on scarier villains

  13. Empty calories is what I would call this episode. Discovery broke me early this season —- I needed to detox so I just watched 'The Cage' again. Jesus Christ. This is the first episode of star trek and in one episode it explores humanity, sci fi concepts, has intelligent characters written by intelligent people and they use logic and reasoning to solve problems and then they have an action scene that actually has meaning and depth to it. Discovery is so corporate, so manufactured to hit checkboxes on a list of perceived audience wants that is a hollow vapid experience. We are 3 seasons in —- past the 'finding our footing' false hope. This show is fucked.

  14. They will have to KILL Su 'kal in the end… Mark my words. Why? Because Capitalism.

  15. people can have all sorts of reasons for liking Discovery.. but its not star trek… they take the external container of star trek and pour into it GoT or Lost or Dexter( a story about a serial killer with a good heart who has a need to discover and share his emotions and grow) and say it is, therefore, star trek they have the uniforms and phasers to prove it

  16. I' ve refused to watch this train wreck of a series since S01E03, but I have listened to every single PenPod (sometimes more than once) because the discussion keeps getting more surreal as the show progresses/regresses. From the discussion today, it sounds as if STD has achieved a full synthesis of T. S. Eliot's "The Wasteland" and "All My Children". That two seasoned Trekkers with seven years of insightful reviews under their belts spend half this pod in dead silence searching the thesaurus for some way to describe the horrors you guys have suffered through says everything I need to know. Bless both of you for taking the hit so I don't have to! And Happy New Year! I'm excited to start our 8th year together. Gadzooks! I've had shorter marriages.

  17. It's so hard watching the Osira actress trying to deal with the completely stiff plastic face she is wearing. There were a couple of times in the episode when she tried to smile but couldn't because her upper lip will not move.

  18. The scene where they are all being held captive is a good example of one of the ways this show sucks. Other than Tilly and Detmer can anyone name any of the other characters in that room? That's the bridge crew, the senior officers, and after 3 seasons I don't know any of their names, and I certainly don't give a shit about glorified extras being held captive by the bad guys.
    Say what you will about Mayweather on Enterprise, but at least you know what his name is, and at least he has a backstory.

  19. It's not high praise, but this was for me the best episode since early season 2. But honestly, I think it's because it makes a pretty strong case that Discovery and the Federation are the bad guys and Osyraa (I'll take your word on the spelling) is largely a good-ish guy. Will all of this unravel next episode? Probably. But I mean, she comes in with a more than reasonable treaty despite holding all the cards, passes the honesty tests, and gets a slap in the face about being tried for her crimes. What "crimes"? Who is the law? She's not even killing Discovery crew even though they are killing her people. This is where it feels very Star Wars to me, aside from the action scenes and the droids: I am expected to side with the protagonists with no justification. They don't discuss or ponder the right course of action, they don't choose peace, they don't attempt to understand their adversaries or build trust with them; they just fight. The Federation must be right, they are called the Federation. The bad guy occasionally kills and mistreats people, and she is not called the Federation, so it's not okay. I felt the same way with Lorca. This guy is clearly the good guy of the Terran Empire, how TF did Discovery wind up on Georgiou's side?

    By the way, how did the Ferengi get iced out of this Emerald Chain?

  20. I liked this episode more than most. It was fast paced and messy, but there was so much going on I didn't feel the need to get hung up on all the careless plot holes. I felt this way of season one after getting over the new Klingon's; then they won the war by holding Kronos hostage with a bomb, crowning the terrorist who took credit for this empress.

  21. So when there is a fire in a Jefferies tube the ship immediately opens them up to space and vents them, regardless of their being people in the tubes, then the ship gives a 5 second warning that it is closing the hatches? Seems like perfectly reasonable safety measures.

  22. There is a tide all right..and it stinks. Maybe that's also made out of feeces. I think your shark destroyed all the dilithium too! They wasted too much time without, again, fleshing out their ideas and again we have a mad dash to the end.Great cast as usual! And as always you and Clay make good points on this show. The story writing is so poor that it does make the show a slow painful slog to the end.

  23. The actor who played Aurelio (Kenneth Mitchell), in a wheelchair because he's come down with ALS is one of those odd personal coincidences. My sister's boyfriend, Lamin Martin (, was asked to be a concept artist for Discovery from the beginning of the show but he didn't care for the studio they were using (credit stealers) so he declined. Shortly after he was diagnosed with ALS. He passed just before the pandemic. It's strange for me find out about Mitchell.

    Totally had the Star Wars impression. Effects are nice. Priorities are obviously upside down.

  24. Vance cant help define what the federation is…. its nothing without Burnham and she will define it when Kurtzman is ready

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